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beBoy
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Posts : 51
Join date : 2017-05-23
Location : Markham
http://catnmousejungle.forumotion.com

experimental build 0859 - December 23, 2017

on Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:29 pm
Merry Christmas, everyone!

Most of you should feel the upgrades are faster but more expensive.  Let me know how it goes.

Change log:

Classic 2.017 BETA build 0859 - December 22, 2017
- (balance) Protoss Shield base cost decreased from $25 to $20, factor increased from $8 to $28; base time decreased from 41 secs to 32 secs, factor decreased from 11 secs to 7 secs.  In general, this will allow faster Shield upgrades but rely more heavily on income.
- (balance) Protoss Armor base cost increased from $24 to $31, factor decreased from $9 to $5; base time decreased from 55 secs to 53 secs, factor increased from 10 secs to 14 secs.  This will make the Armor upgrade slightly cheaper in the long run, but takes longer to upgrade as a whole.
- (balance) Protoss Scarab Damage upgrade time factor decreased from 15 secs to 7 secs.  This should make Reaver's damage upgrade significantly faster.
- (balance) Terran Infantry Armor base cost decreased from $55 to $52, factor increased from $7 to $11; base time decreased from 91 secs to 40 secs.  This should make Terran Infantry Armor upgrade much faster, but slightly more expensive.
- (balance) Terran Ship Weapon upgrade base time decreased from 50 secs to 20 secs, factor increased from 7 secs to 9 secs.  This should make the upgrade slightly faster to finish.
- added Cloaking Field ability to Wraith, energy cost is 45.
- added Terran Ship Armor upgrades, available to level 2.
- Mice chooser will now be teleported when buying the Transfer Ownership token
- removed Cat Unstuck triggers as this bug is fixed by Blizzard years ago.  Deleted corresponding locations too.
- added triggers to teleport Yellow's chooser to the middle of the Cat / Mice beacons.
- replaced Defiler with Hydralisk (Cat Toy).  Cat Toy costs 2+1 DTs.



Classic 2.017 BETA build 0858 - December 13, 2017
- Replaced Critter Bomb with Snake (Defiler) for 2 DT.  The Snake has the following abilities:
  - Dark Swarm
  - Plague
- (balance) increased Cat's base periodic feed from $20 to a range between $20 to $32, depending on how many mice is in the game.


Last edited by beBoy on Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
TrueFang
Map Maker
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Posts : 24
Join date : 2018-01-01

Suggestions

on Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:06 am
Hi beBoy!

Happy 2018!

Thank you so much for creating this map, and for reviving and maintaining it! It has been countless hours of fun for me. I really cannot thank you enough. I have especially enjoyed the Christmas edition.

I do have some suggestions. I hope here's the right place to post them.

I would like to:

- Disable jail guards until 5 min have elapsed (hat tip m.0.n.3.y)
- Increase reward for saving to $75 (hat tip m.0.n.3.y)

These two changes make the early game more fun for people since saves will actually be attempted.

- Make defensive matrix available to ball (25 energy)

This change gives sair/irradiate combo some additional punch in the midgame, which is an important cat tool to pressure mice economy. From your changelog I think it was already supposed to be available, but for some reason it isn't.

- Change mouse magnet icon to data disc to avoid confusion

I noticed a lot of Korean players especially were buying mouse magnet expecting to get a cat toy. This is a very minor change, and I think it will help a bit.

- Message when cannot save because you were autosaved
- Message when cannot save because cat is near

I noticed a lot of people getting confused and thinking the map is bugged when it did not save.

- Make sure flying units cannot fly into buying area to hide (hat-tip m.0.n.3.y)

I'm kind of torn on this one since it makes my favorite unit the queen less viable. But in the end, units you bought should stay in the playing area. Against good cats, it's important to have some counterplay to vessels and sairs, and I think this change does it.

- Make zacker drop ovie much stronger (for example 2000hp 4 armor)

Zackers are high risk / high reward and amazingly fun, but having 4 marines just shoot down the delivery overlord is lame. I like the mechanic that Zackers can be denied, but it should take a little bit more power.

I have implemented these changes in the map that I link below. Feel free to playtest it. I'd really appreciate your feedback on these ideas and would like to work with you on getting any changes you like into the official version. The no-fly zone uses a little bit of black trigger magic to get the right feel. I have also added a cat secret, that I can only discuss with you in private.

Classic CatNMouse Jungle vT1Alpha3.scx
s000 DOT tinyupload DOT com/index.php?file_id=79692557503646853289
(replace DOT with .)

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,

TrueFang
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beBoy
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Join date : 2017-05-23
Location : Markham
http://catnmousejungle.forumotion.com

Re: experimental build 0859 - December 23, 2017

on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:10 am
This is among the largest group of suggestions.  First allow me to thank you for spending time on giving these to me in such an organized fashion.  Also let me apologize for my decisions (at least for now) for some of your suggestions.  I'll explain below:


- Disable jail guards until 5 min have elapsed (hat tip m.0.n.3.y)
[bb] Disabling it for the first 5 mins definitely making the early game much easier and encouraging saving.  However, I'd like to force Mice players to learn the 3 skills I listed below.  All old Mice players know these tricks and I want to force the new players to learn these great skills.  Countering Jail Guard is an essential thing and I'd like to see it happens more often than now (sad thing it pretty much doesn't happen anymore...), and I don't think disabling Jail Guard is the way to better equip Mice players.
1. buy 1 ling when saving, it helps greatly to distract Jail Guard, even for the slightest, which leads to #3 below:
2. build pylon at Jail Guard spawn.  I understand that the pylon will also be killed, but it delays the spawn of the Jail Guard and gives Mice players clues as to the upcoming Jail Guard spawning in the area.  This also helps #3 below.
3. kill the Jail Guard with your probe.  Probes being saved should ALL rush to both sides of the spawning location of Jail Guards and kill it instantly.  Jail Guards are designed specifically to be 1-shot killed by Probes.




- Increase reward for saving to $75 (hat tip m.0.n.3.y)
[bb] Yeah sometimes I do think risking ones life should get a better reward.  I can definitely raise it to $75.

These two changes make the early game more fun for people since saves will actually be attempted.

- Make defensive matrix available to ball (25 energy)

This change gives sair/irradiate combo some additional punch in the midgame, which is an important cat tool to pressure mice economy. From your changelog I think it was already supposed to be available, but for some reason it isn't.
[bb] I will definitely check this one.  It's already at 25 mana as of Nov 21 - build 0856.

- Change mouse magnet icon to data disc to avoid confusion

I noticed a lot of Korean players especially were buying mouse magnet expecting to get a cat toy. This is a very minor change, and I think it will help a bit.
[bb] I will change it.  I have also seen too many Cat players spending 3 dts on the 'hydralisk' that moves...  It's also a good point that Korean players don't read English and won't possibly get what that would do.  Thanks.

- Message when cannot save because you were autosaved
- Message when cannot save because cat is near

I noticed a lot of people getting confused and thinking the map is bugged when it did not save.
[bb] Will do.  Smile

- Make sure flying units cannot fly into buying area to hide (hat-tip m.0.n.3.y)

I'm kind of torn on this one since it makes my favorite unit the queen less viable. But in the end, units you bought should stay in the playing area. Against good cats, it's important to have some counterplay to vessels and sairs, and I think this change does it.
[bb] I'd keep things as-is and won't prevent air units to fly into the buying area.  There are two things Mice can do to combat Cat's air units:
1. Turret top half of the map, given the map control superiority that Mice should have.  Or else, Cat won't even have to hide at top.
2. Get Wraiths and upgrade armor & attack.  Wraiths are pretty OP but expensive at the same time.  But they definitely kill Corsairs with help of micro'ing the Wraiths to not cluster into a group and get killed by area attack of Corsairs.

- Make zacker drop ovie much stronger (for example 2000hp 4 armor)

Zackers are high risk / high reward and amazingly fun, but having 4 marines just shoot down the delivery overlord is lame. I like the mechanic that Zackers can be denied, but it should take a little bit more power.
[bb] This is definitely something I have overlooked when I decided to greatly increase the ability for Mice to upgrade attacks.  Yes, I will buff Overlord's HP for sure but I don't think I will add any armor.  Without armor will give all units equal chance of killing it.

I have implemented these changes in the map that I link below. Feel free to playtest it. I'd really appreciate your feedback on these ideas and would like to work with you on getting any changes you like into the official version. The no-fly zone uses a little bit of black trigger magic to get the right feel. I have also added a cat secret, that I can only discuss with you in private.
[bb] feel free to send me a pm, I will respond whenever I check my emails.


Lastly, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: experimental build 0859 - December 23, 2017

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